This page is *theory* for Bloodborne, by Clone246
First, let's discuss what we already know about Oedon already and then expand on my take of the events in Bloodborne.
First of all Oedon is a formless Great One and only his voice exists in the waking world (we assume that Caryll, the only person who was able to hear and make runes based on Oedon's words, did NOT come in contact with dreams and nightmares created by the Great Ones.) We also know that his essence is blood and that he and his followers seek it and it is highly likely that Oedon is the Great One who impregnated Queen Yharnam and gave birth to Mergo.
Okay now here comes the speculation. Remember in Cainhurst when we come across Annalise? She is sitting on her throne but beside her is an empty throne, why is that? Queen Annalise keeps on saying "we" in her dialogue which implies that she is with the company of another being. With references to wanting a "child of blood" I can safely say that the being she is talking about is none other than Oedon. Annalise wants to give birth to a child of blood, Oedon's essence is blood, therefore Annalise wants to bear Oedon's child. Annalise gets offered blood dregs by her followers in order for her to have more of a chance to gain a child of blood, in a way Annalise is trying to appease Oedon by offering blood.
Moving on to the Tomb of Oedon, why would a Great One have a tomb dedicated to it? Well it is simple, Oedon in a way has died and lost his physical form, reducing his presence to a voice.This is further evidenced by the presence of Mergo, the formless baby Great One has no form, this is because it was a stillborn as indicated by the bloody clothes of Queen Yharnam. Now what is the deal with the Wet Nurse? Why would a dead baby need a Wet Nurse? To put it simply the Wet Nurse does what its job is but with a twist, instead of feeding Mergo breast milk it feeds Mergo blood. This is implied due to the husks of the members of the School of Mensis and the skeletal remains all around the area where you fight the Wet Nurse. I believe the Wet Nurse is feeding Mergo blood in order for Mergo to be reborn.
Oedon is most likely represented by the Moon, the Moon is ever present during the events of Bloodborne, it is shining through the window at Cainhurst's throne room, shining on the exact spot where Rom is in the lake, shining at Mergo's loft, present in the Hunter's Dream and finally shining on Ebrietas. Let's talk about Ebrietas, she is the daughter of the Cosmos, the exact same thing Micolash was trying to contact (Kos/Kosm) judging on the appearance of Ebrietas she looks exactly like a grown up version of the baby Great Ones all around the Choir's domain, those same baby Great Ones look exactly like the baby Arianna gave birth to when she got knocked up by Oedon. "The sky and the cosmos are one" I believe that this quote points to the Moon being present in the cosmos and in the sky which made me conclude that Kos/Kosm = The Moon = Oedon!
Lesser Amygdalas appear everywhere during the Paleblood moon sequence, I believe that these servants of Amygdala are there to spread fear and madness across Yharnam. The villagers that are struck by the scourge actually see YOU as a beast, they are afraid of you! They call you a foul beast and tell you to stay away as they wave their torches and pitchforks at you! This is all part of Amygdalas plan, to spread fear and madness in order for the Hunt to continue in the waking world, I believe this is all part of Oedon's plan but where does it all come to?
The answer is within the Hunters Dream, the only Great One known to reside in there is none other than the Moon Presence. I believe the Moon Presence is Oedon trying to be reborn again, manipulating the Doll and giving the Hunters a safe haven for one purpose, the Hunters kill beasts and gain blood echoes to exchange for power by the Doll, where does this blood go to? To Oedon himself to strengthen his physical form (starting to see a pattern here?) All the endless hunts, all the endless nights, all of Amygdalas' servants spreading fear and madness into all of the Yharnamites, it is all Oedon's plan to regain his physical form. Now there are arguments that the Moon Presence/Oedon is against other Great Ones and is using your Hunter to kill them, I disagree with this theory because the way I see it, the Great Ones are so much more powerful than humans, so why would they even bother relying on them to do their job? While I agree that they do not see humans as anything other than tools, whether it is using Gherman as a puppet to host the Hunter's Dream or whether it is impregnating women such as Yharnam and Arianna in order for their race to continue, I do not think that they would call for the aid of a human hitman. Plus if Gherman is indeed under control of the Moon Presence/Oedon, why doesn't he say to the player to hunt the Great One baby Mergo? It just doesn't add up. When the Moon Presence embraces your Hunter it isn't hugging you like a child, it is in fact draining you of your blood echoes so it can be one step closer into achieving its full physical form and come into the waking world, your Hunter was brought into the dream by blood, now that he is drained of it he is nothing but a shell for the Moon Presence/Oedon to manipulate. When your Hunter destroys the Moon Presence, Oedon isn't completely dead since Great Ones can never truly die (Amygdala is fear in physical form, when it is killed it doesn't mean we all stop being afraid) This is similar to Azathoth, both Oedon and Azathoth are in a dream like state and if they were to manifest in our world (wake up from their dream) it would destroy us all!
AnonymousAnnaliese is speaking with the 'royal we'. It's a thing. It only means that she's speaking not AS the Queen of Cainhurst, but as the literal kingdom of Cainhurst.
- Anonymous
I like your theory, so don't take what I say as bashing, but as continued learning for us all.
I see some clear holes in your theory.
A) Oedon cannot be Kos, for we see Kos, lying dead on the beach. Furthermore, Mother Kos has given birth to a physical child, everyone's favorite Orphan.
B) Oedon cannot be the Moon Presence, because it has a name: Flora, of the Moon. It also has a physical form in a chalice dungeon that was cut from the game (I accept this is speculation on my part as well).
C) The amygdalas that we see latched to buildings do not seem to be spreading a madness, as you say. Yharnamites are afraid of the player because hunters have been codified in their heads as ruthless, reckless, crazed individuals, evidenced by the entire Old Hunter's DLC and many, many item descriptions (such as the black church set).
However, I thoroughly enjoy your idea that Oedon might be sitting next to Queen Annalise.
Happy Hunting
- Anonymous
Stopped reading when you equated a queen calling herself "We" with having an imaginary friend sitting next to her on an empty throne. Royal we and a widow an Oedon does not make
- Anonymous
I always thought Oedon was meant to be the player themselves. Think about it. Your child, is the fact that you have a ps4 so you are subject to play many games with main characters, thus since you put in the disc or clicked to play the game you "yearn for a surrogate." Your inadvertent worshipers are the many hunters you eventually create. They go out seeking blood because that's all you can ever really do in this game while also being in full control of that said hunter. Also you exist in this plane only as a voice to others who also control hunters by talking through the mic to each other or by being in the same room. Lastly the only reason why anything progresses is because you and your hunter are running the show! Gherman wanted to show the hunter mercy because otherwise you would keep controlling them until eventually their use runs out and they end up like him, stuck in the dream.
- Anonymous
I like your interpretation, it makes sense! Look at the condition of Moon Presence when the camera pans behind it. Moon Presence looks incomplete to me, a long spine with nerves and flesh on it! Why? Why would our final boss, be this physically pathetic? Less complete than Ebrietas? Because Oedon wasn’t finished yet! He hasn’t completed a full physical transformation!
- Anonymous
The use of "We" by the Queen does not necessarily mean that there is another presence in the room. She is most likely using the royal "We" in which monarchs use we regardless of quantity. Interesting theory though.
My take on things is similar, but also takes into account the Moon Presence being called a demon in Japanese and the concept art of it with wings and a torso that is not flayed open, which implies that it is something different and much worse than the Great Ones and was severely injured at some point. The demon thing is also supported by the fact the Moon Presence does not look like the Great Ones, being dark and angular and having no face rather than the Great Ones being blueish-grey, looking like sea creatures or bugs, and covrered in eyes. My theory is that Formless Oedon is not formless because he is like that by nature or wants to be, but rather because he has no choice. In the ancient past something, perhaps a Great One or other such being, defeated the him and left him to die underneath the foundations of what would one day become Pthumeru and then Yharnam. Without a body, Oedon's consciousness lingered and could only manifest when using blood as a medium. He spoke to Queen Yharnam and used her to sire Mergo so that the child could become a vessel for him to be reborn through, seeing the infant not as his own child but rather merely a piece of himself to be used as a tool. Mergo's stillbirth ruined this plan, however, and when the Pthumerians lost Oedon's favor they fell to madness and their kingdom collapsed. Generations later, Oedon brought about the Nightmare in Yharnam so that he could complete his plan, intending for the Nightmare Frontier to be a cradle for Mergo to develop in until it would be a suitable vessel. But things didn't go according to plan, the interference of others such as Kos, Rom, and Ebrietas threw things off-track and kept the Nightmare from progressing as Oedon wanted. Then, the nameless presence of the moon made contact with Gehrman, who formed a contract with it in his grief of losing Lady Maria and all his other companions, thus truly beginning the Hunt. Now Oedon had weapons with which to strike down the other gods that were keeping him from using humanity as a tool and incubator. Oedon wouldn't have any problem with the Great Ones being slaughtered because he himself was closer to a demon than what they were and did not see them as his kin in any way. The Moon Demon is what is left of Oedon's original body and the being he once was, now reanimated through the Dream to act as a temporary avatar of his will once again in order to deal with the Hunter and ensure they remain a pawn in service of his plans.
- Anonymous
I agree that Oedon has a huge part to play in the progression of the hunt, and that Moon Presence is likely a representation of Oedon (I mean, look at the art book), but its relation to Gehrman and the hunters seems more complex than mentioned here. This theory is just a step in the right direction. Oedon WAS a formless Great One, but has since acquired a body through the blood echoes fed through the Doll. Blood echoes are a purplish energy representing the common blood of all creatures, with potential inspiration from such forces as ectoplasm. Oedon, symbolized by the “oozing blood” in “all its forms,” absorbs the echoes in order to incarnate himself into the Nameless Moon Presence. The Moon Presence is not rotting, but gestating (gestation of an embryo is a much uglier process than most people realize—skin is one of the last organs to form on a growing fetus). I do believe that Mergo is Oedon and Yharnam’s child, but I do not assent that it was Odeon’s intention to kill Mergo. Quite the opposite: I suspect that this was Gehrman’s attempt to intervene with his plan, by guiding the hunters to halt the nightmare temporarily until the next cycle. However, Oedon and Mergo are not the only examples of “formless” Great Ones. Mergo’s Wet Nurse can also be thought of as “formless” beneath those layers of tattered cloth. The Wet Nurse is also nameless like the Moon Presence, suggesting a special correlation. It would make sense that another formless Great One would be tasked with caring for Mergo. The Vilebloods and the Pthumerians appear to have a special affinity with the formless as well. Out of all the factions in the game, only Vilebloods and their Pthumerian ancestors possess the ability to become ghosts. The Plain Doll, the spiritual reincarnation of Lady Maria, is able to turn formless blood echoes into physical strength. This makes sense when considering Yharnam was wedded to Oedon and sired Mergo. However, there’s still one startling connection to be drawn: there exists one more formless Great One that I’ve noticed few people realize: the nameless wraith-like being that emerges from the remains of Kos after defeating the Orphan of Kos. This entity, like Mergo and the Moon Presence, is one of the only beings to award the “NIGHTMARE SLAIN” banner upon death, and is apparently a separate entity from the Orphan. But what is it? Hold on to your rockers, because I’m about to make the stretch of a lifetime: this entity is Mergo, in another time, in another space. Mergo was somehow spirited from Queen Yharnam by a group of Byrgenwerth scholars led by Laurence in an attempt to harvest tho blood of a formless Great One,—because after all, a being without blood is inherently immune to blood borne afflictions. They failed to acquire this elusive medium, but came away with the physical remains of Mergo: the Yharnam Stone. Laurence devised another plan. With the help of the Old Hunters, he was able to return to the Fishing Hamlet discovered by Byrgenwerth, and by using the carcass of Kos as an incubator for the Yharnam Stone, he was successful in reviving the physical manifestation of Mergo as the Orphan of Kos. This would grant Laurence the medium he so desired: the blood of the very cosmos. This is when Laurence made a tragic realization: the beast plague still could not be contained, because it never existed in the first place. Even with the vitae of the Great Ones, not even Laurence was immune to the beast plague. It was a disease of the mind all along, and was a direct result of the frightful experiments and social construct devised by the Healing Church, predicted long ago by Master Willem. In fact, it’s possible that the Wet Nurse is the “bloodless” called by the Hamlet priests to exact revenge upon the successors of the Old Hunters. She protects the memory of Mergo from the hunters, including yourself, in order to perpetuate the bloodshed. This is Oedon’s will, to bathe Yharnam in an eternal rain of shed blood. All this being said, I don’t really think of the Great Ones as active forces, but rather as representations of the subconscious, much like Amygdala represents fear. Oedon is probably symbolic of humanity’s desire for a reason for violence and suffering; without this sense of purpose, the futility of the hunt would become apparent. It is, in essence, the will to power. My wrist is cramping up though, so maybe I’ll finish this spiel some other time. I hope it doesn’t turn this post into block text again...
- Anonymous
I don't even care if it is incorrect, that was an interesting theory
- Anonymous
I think it may be more likely to say that the Moon Presence is not a form of Oedon, but rather a grown up version of the infant we become. What I mean is that we can't escape the cycle. In all three endings, Oedons hunt continues. You are a part of Oedons machinations no matter what you do. The fact that Oedon is referred as being "formless" might hint that insight cannot grant you the ability to see him. That's why I can't believe that the Moon Presence is any form of Oedon, but rather another tool of his. Like Azathoth it is the highest rank in the race of the Great One's and all things tie back to it. (it could also be comparable to Yog-Sothoth)
- Anonymous
(SPOILERS AHEAD) This lore theory was made partially invalid by the DLC, where we find out that Kos/Kosm was a Great One that the Byrgenwerth Scholars and some hunters affiliated to them (Gerhman, Lady Maria and maybe the Old Hunters), led by Laurence, hunt down and killed, or at least profanated and experimented upon her dead body. Then, Kos laid down a curse at the entire Fishing Hamlet and the hunters as well by creating the Hunter's Nightmare and trapping everyone that was involved on that event after their deaths to suffer on it. Gehrman got trapped in the Hunter's Dream because Laurence (and maybe Master Willem as well) came up with the idea of contacting the Moon Presence through the usage of the Third of an Umbilical Cord in order to create the Hunter's Dream and bind new hunters to it (to act as a counter to the Hunter's bloodlust and preventing new hunters to become mindless killers like the Old Hunters, acting as an opposite to the Hunter's Nightmare).
- Anonymous
ok but the queen say's "we" cuz its traditional fancy royal speak for "I"
- Anonymous
That makes no sense, if the Moon Presence was Oedon, why would it have you murder his child Mergo ?
Great Ones have been shown to have strong parental instinct, they yearn for surrogates because they lost their children. So we find one such child who is dead, but is not yet, it is strongly suggested this child is Oedon's, and Oedon, who controls us through Gehrman, doesn't raise a finger when we go for him ? After killing him when we return to the dream, the Moon Presence doesn't descend from the moon and obliterate us in avenging fury ?
Killing Mergo seems quite deliberate, it is suggested that he/she, along with the Mensis Ritual, is the source of the nightmare. In addition, with the exception of Amygdala, killing Great Ones in the nightmare appears quite definitive in opposition to killing those in the real world. To me that's what the "Nightmare Slain" message signals, that we've actually slain a Great One for good. So why would Mergo be our target if the Moon Presence was in control of the Dream ?
- Anonymous
She is using the "pluralis maiestatis", a formula by which the people with royalblood refers to themselves (and MUST be refered to) with the plural pronouns
- Anonymous
But why Oedon who ascend to a "superior" plane would want to reborn again in a physical form? He already reached a high purpose.
Please add your nickname at the top so people know whose is speaking as you use "I" to express your ideas :)
Though I support the concept of there being a connection between the moon presence and oedon, seeking the ‘pale blood’ being seeking the moon presence and quicksilver which is connected to oedon being a pale/silvery blood, I do not believe that oedon is ‘dead’. I believe that oedon tomb is referred as such is due to the fact that it’s right next to oedon chapel. Possibly ‘flora’ (the moon presence’ is the physical manifestation of oedon misinterpreted as it’s own great one.
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